Saint Augustine and the Phoenician language

<p class="title"><font color="#990066"><em><br /><font color="#000000">As will be attesed below, the paradoxical view sometimes argued, that when Augustine talks about lingua Punica he means Libyan (or "Berber"), has been shown to have no foundatioin; and without the supposed testimony of Augustine the literacy evidence reduces to at best a couple of oblique references. Sallust says of Lepcis Magna: "The language of this cit(y has just been transformed by intermarriages with the Numidians; its laws culure are mostly Sidonian." He clearly means to indicate the presence at Lepcis of some language other than Punic. Then there is, if the plural is pressed, a passing hint in Pompinuis Mela's summary of the culture of North African coasline: "The coasline is inhabited by cultivators conforming on the whole to our habits except the some use different languages". Finally, it may (or may not) be the same Libyan language to which Augustine refers when he speaks of the language of the tribes beyond the Roman frontier.</font><h2 class="title"><font size="1"><a href="http://http//books.google.com/books?id=CVz_Jvp4DGEC&amp;pg=RA1-PA253&amp;dq=As+will+be+attested+below,+the+parado xical+view+sometimes+argued,+that+when+Augustine+t alks+about+%27lingua+Punica&amp;hl=nl&amp;sig=ACfU 3U0xj5NBx2d827dqmQNL3opua78vWw#PRA1-PA254,M1">Rome, the Greek World, and the East by<span class="addmd"> Fergus Millar, Hannah Cotton, Guy MacLean Rogers</span></a></font></h2><p class="title"><br /><font color="#990066">Saint Augustine of Hippo was an icon of the Christian faith and came from a Phoenician Punic stock. He called the Punic language <em>"our own tongue". <br /><table cellpadding="8" width="768" align="center" background="imgs/brcrnppr.gif" border="0"><tr><td valign="top" align="center"><table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="750" align="center" border="0"><!--DWLayoutTable--><tr><td valign="middle" align="left" colspan="5"><h1 class="phoetitle" align="left"><!-- #BeginEditable "title" --><span class="phoetitle"><font size="1"><a href="http://phoenicia.org/staugustine.html">Saint Augustine of Hippo, The Phoenician Punic</a></font></span></h1><h1 class="phoetitle" align="left"><span class="phoetitle"><font size="1"></font></span></h1><h1 class="phoetitle" align="left"><span class="phoetitle"><font size="2">Augustine of Hippo stated that the peasants in his part of Africa, if asked their race, would answer, in Punic or Phoenician, "Canaanites."</font></span></h1><h1 class="phoetitle" align="left"><span class="phoetitle"><font size="2"><a href="http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/edomites.htm">http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/edomites.htm</a></font></span></h1><h1 class="phoetitle" align="left"><span class="phoetitle"><font size="2"></font></span></h1><h1 class="phoetitle" align="left"><span class="phoetitle"><font size="2">Even here, important counter-examples exist, such as St Augustine, bishop of Hippo in Roman North Africa, who knew Latin, Greek, Punic and Hebrew and struggled with Aramaic. Punic, a regional language of Roman Africa that lacked any official status, was not apparently Augustine's mother tongue; perhaps he learned it from his wife, since Augustine's writings tell us than his son was better at Punic than he himself was (pp. 237-240).</font></span></h1><h1 class="phoetitle" align="left"><span class="phoetitle"><font size="2"> <a href="http://pagesperso-orange.fr/dalby/texts/AdamsBilingualism.html">http://pagesperso-orange.fr/dalby/texts/AdamsBilingualism.html</a></font></span></h1><h1 class="phoetitle" align="left"><span class="phoetitle"><font size="2"></font></span></h1><h1 class="phoetitle" align="left"><span class="phoetitle"><font size="2">"<font face="Arial">Ibn Khaldoun lui-même prend fermement position en faveur de ce qu’il appelle <i>"le fait réel, fait qui nous dispense de toute hypothèse… : les Berbères sont les enfants de Canaan, fils de Cham, fils de Noé.."</i></font></font></span></h1><h1 class="phoetitle" align="left"><span class="phoetitle"><a href="http://www.mondeberbere.com/histoire/camps/origines.htm"><font size="1">http://www.mondeberbere.com/histoire/camps/origines.htm</font></a></span></h1><h1 class="phoetitle" align="left"><span class="phoetitle"></span></h1></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></em></font></p></em></font></p>

_MD_RE: Saint Augustine and the Phoenician language

Augustinus
De conclusie dat het Punisch in de eerste vijf eeuwen na Christus een levende taal was past goed in het beeld dat de literaire bronnen oproepen. Latijnse auteurs refereerden bijvoorbeeld vaak aan Punische boeken. Punisch was ook de moedertaal van kerkvader Augustinus (354-430), meent Kerr. ‘Vaak wordt aangenomen dat Augustinus eigenlijk ‘Berbers’ bedoelde als hij het over Punisch had. Maar hij wist heel goed dat er verschil was tussen het Punisch en het Libico-Berber. Van het laatste wist hij dat het bestond, maar hij kende het niet. Augustinus herkende bijvoorbeeld ook Hebraïsmen in de oud-Latijnse Bijbelvertaling, doordat hij Punisch kende. Hij kende geen Hebreeuws.’
http://www.kennislink.nl/web/show?id=165195

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Augustine
The conclusion that Punic was a living language in the first five centuries A.D. fits well with the image portrayed in literary sources. Latin authors, for example, made frequent reference to Punic books. Kerr believes that Punic was also the native language of church father Augustine (354-430). 'It is often assumed that Augustine actually meant 'Berber' when he talked about Punic. But he was well aware that there was a difference between Punic and Libyan-Berber. He knew that this last existed, but he wasn't familiar with the language. Augustine also recognised Hebrewisms in the ancient Latin Bible translation, because he knew Punic. He did not understand Hebrew.'
http://leidenuniv.nl/en/research/index.php3-c=285.htm